Remember my whole thing about how comparing Jenrry Mejia to Johan Santana was silly because Santana wasn’t particularly good as a reliever and then only became a good starter after time spent in Double-A refining his changeup? Omar Minaya doesn’t.
Has anyone been watching Life? It’s nuts. Every single shot is mindblowing. Here’s some stuff about it.
Someone named his horse Radiohead.
Toby Hyde respects my Beck reference. As he should. I never mention Houston without referencing the hot-dog dance.
Tedquarters 
If this Mejia nonsense continues, how about commencing a class-action lawsuit against the Mets on behalf of all similarly aggrieved Mets’ fans alleging prospect malpractice? Maybe we can find a Queens County Judge sympathetic to our cause and willing to issue an injunction barring the Mets from using him in the pen. After reading that quote from Omar, I’m thinking this might be our only chance to save Mejia from the Mets brain trust.
And what happens when they start him out in the bullpen this year and he comes down with a sore arm in late April after trying to over-throw a couple of days in row because he is not accustomed to being in the pen and the only way he knows how to get mlb hitters out is by throwing his fastball past them? With everybody so focused these days on innings totals, it seems as if everybody just assumes that there is no injury risk in sending a starter to the pen and asking him to throw and prepare differently than he ever has before.
I hope he walks 6 guys in row today.
So you think he’s at more of a risk to blow out his arm pitching in relief than as a starter?
I understand there is different types of preparation, but this complaint is really a reach. I’ve never heard of a guy being taxed more as a relief pitcher than a starter. Thats why starting pitchers that get injured often go to the bullpen.
If you want to argue his developemnt as a starter will messed up, or they are jerking him around, thats valid, but blowing out his arm by pitching less? Doubtful. There is plenty of negatives to this that can be pointed out, as Ted has done a nice job of, there is no need make up nonsense here.
Not necessarily, but I think it is a risk that is ignored due to the media’s laser-like focus on pitch counts and the Verducci effect.
Why do starters who throw 92 often throw 96 out of the pen? Because they are letting it rip knowing that they only have to be out there for an inning or two. You can’t envision a scenario where a 20 year old kid pitching in high pressure situations (7th or 8th inning) who throws only a fastball couldn’t hurt himself by overthrowing?
A reliever may be pitching less, but he is throwing harder and more often. No one really knows why pitchers get injured, but do you trust the Mets leadership not to mess this kid up? I don’t.
Your still just reaching with this one.
And Sherm, why do you seem to think that overthrowing is only a possibility in a relief role? 7th and 8th innings arent the only spots in a game where a pitcher would try to over throw.
Say hes starting, and is in a jam and needs a strikeout, isnt he just as likely at that point to try and over throw and blow a guy away?
I think with Jerry as his manager there’s at least as much risk at this point. In the minors innings totals are monitored much more closely. Jerry seems to have no concept of work load management for his relievers.
Chris M, I don’t think its a reach to be concerned how his arm will respond to this new role to which he is not accustomed, but it is far from my main concern.
Verducci’s thesis is based upon shock to the young pitcher’s arm. If it is accepted that a dramatic increase in innings can constitute such a shock, why can’t a dramatic change in the frequency and intensity of the pitching? I think we can agree that a “promotion” from low level minor league starter to major league late inning reliever can constitute a dramatic change in a young pitcher’s use of his arm. Why is it a reach to question whether such a change can also constitute the kind of shock which can result in an arm injury?
In any case, my main concern is the stunting of his development as a starter, but that dead horse has been beating enough. I just wish we still had Rick Peterson monitoring the situation, rather than Jerry Manuel and Hank Hill, I mean Dan Warthon.
Sherm,
“why can’t a dramatic change in the frequency and intensity of the pitching?” My answer to that is where is the evidence? Verduccis theory at least provides examples and stats of players who have suffered. What players do you know of that have blow out thier arms by moving to the pen and pitching less? Like I said, guys with arm problems to begin with often benefit from moving to the pen, so you suggesting Mejia could be hurt physically by this, is like I said twice before, a real stretch.
From Metsblog: “…man, the Mets are really going for it with mejia… i mean, i’m thinking he shouldn’t be throwing back-to-back days at his age period, regardless of whether he’s a reliever, a starter, in the big leagues or in the minors… but, apparently the Mets disagree… i hope they know what they’re doing…”
Matt Cerrone seems to share my concerns, Chris M.
Verducci’s thesis is based upon “shock” to the young arm. Why would this change of use not shock the arm as well? After pitching as a starter in the minors (where he was coddled), they will now expect him to pitch only in high pressure, late inning situations, and often on back to back days, plus he’ll be getting up in the bullpen to warm up, and then not be used until the next day. Not pitching for several days, and then pitching 3 out of 4 days. Perhaps Verducci has focused on inning increases only because most franchises keep their best your pitchers in the starting rotation. Do you recall any franchise taking their top starting pitching prospect from AA at the age of 20 and throwing him in the bullpen at the beginning of the season because they were too cheap to sign a decent reliever such as an Octavio Dotel?
Look, I’m not saying he is going to get hurt, but I think its a concern that should not be so lightly disregarded simply because conventional wisdom focuses on pitch counts and inning totals.
We can bicker all day, but I’ll stand by my position that this is a blatant case of prospect malpractice for numerous reasons.
Who cares about Mejia and the fifth starter’s spot, Jose is on his way to Florida. That news changed my day.
I’m sorry Sherm, but the fact that Matt Cerrone agrees with you does nothing for me. No offense to Matt Cerrone, he runs a great website, but he doesnt really know any more than you or I do about running a baseball team or developing prospects. His opinion to me means no more than the guy sitting next to me at a bar, or at a game, hes just a fan.
Chris M, commenter Not4Nuttin makes some similar points worth reading in response to Toby Hyde’s Things I Have Read Post from earlier today.
I posted Cerrone’s comment because you have been responding to me as if my concerns are entirely baseless. But they are not. And how many times have we heard Ron Darling discuss how much more taxing it is to pitch in high pressure situations?
Like I said Sherm, just because Matt Cerone shares your same opinion doesnt give it any merrit, its still just a baseless opinion. Cerrone just happens to like baseless opinions too.
And again, why do you for some reason think that the only pressure situations are late in games? The kid would face just as much pressure probably more times over the course of the 5-6 innings as a starter.
Re Meija, James K posted this lovely quote from Jerry Manuel about him at Amazin Avenue.
” I would like to see [Mejia] stay with the hard stuff. He has enough. If he can command that [cutter], he has enough.”
Jerry Manuel, unhappy that a top-notch 20 year-old pitching prospect was working on his breaking ball. Just awful. (Quote from the NY Post, via Fire Jerry Manuel). ”
is it time to press the panic button?
I think it’s time to press the eject button. Any room on your Pirates bandwagon?
Yes, its time for the panic button, but I do wish it was an eject button. Great response.
God[expletive], why is this team run by such [expletive] morons? Can we PLEASE get rid of Jerry before he [expletive] things up even worse?
Sorry about the profanity, but it’s REALLY infuriating.
Sorry about the censorship.
Don’t apologize, it’s your blog and I went off the rails there a little.
I know, but I dislike censorship on some fundamental level. Clearly if it were up to me, we’d all be cursing like sailors here.
Would getting rid of Jerry really make a difference? If Omar, and apparently Jeff since he is team president isn’t he, are willing to allow him to make these kinds of decisions/shape team philosophy this strongly when it comes to prospects then the problem clearly runs deeper than Jerry. I mean we’re talking about the same management who admitted to letting their VP of development shape major league hitting philosophies/plate approaches, despite not agreeing with him.
I was glued to the TV watching Life. I read that at the end there is a full behind the scenes special about how they filmed it, which I’m thinking will be just as good as the show itself.
In watching the 2 hours the other night, I think I said ‘how the F*** did they film that’ outloud about 10 times.
Actually, Johan was dominant as the Twins’ set-up man (splitting time with J.C. Romero, and followed by closer Eddie Guardado) for September 2002 and the first half of 2003.
http://espndb.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=4280&year=2003
True. I misstated it above — he succeeded as a reliever and a starter in the Majors, but only once he spent time (in early 2002) refining his secondary stuff in double-a.
The self-proclaimed tough New York media — the biggest myth in sports, by the way — deserves a ton of blame here, too. They pride themselves on asking tough questions but all spring they’ve been fawning over Mejia and outside of that one Sherman piece haven’t seen anybody asking any of these common-sense questions about Mejia.
Re: the discussion way above here. I’m not a big fan of the Verducci effect theory or whatever it is, a lot of the pitchers he’s used as proof either have motions/deliveries that made them very susceptible to break downs or their decrease in production had more to do with flaws in ERA (their defense had made them look better than their true talent level one year, and the next year they came back to earth or their defense fell apart behind them the next year and made them look worse and etc), but even if you don’t agree with any of that there’s the simple fact that Jerry has shown no real understanding of workload management and has overworked his best relievers, so far in his stint with the Mets.
If Meija is lights out it seems pretty unlikely he won’t end up leaning on him overworking him too, and considering the front office seems to have no intention of stepping in and stopping the train wreck at this point I don’t have much faith in them stepping in mid-season and doing it.
I agree with you 100% Gina about pitchers’ mechanics and not trusting Jerry. But I believe that there is some validity to the Verducci effect, its just been overstated because it treats every pitcher the sames regardless of mechanics, delivery, arm slot, body type, etc.. The Verducci effect oversimplifies a very complex issue and causes people to focus solely on innings pitch. That’s my main problem with it.
But isn’t it just pathetic that we are debating this issue? It really should be a no-brainer to send this kid down to learn how to pitch.
I don’t trust Manuel & this coaching staff with any of our top prospects. Ted’s column is right on. A good start means we get more of Manuel. I am similarly conflicted.